The limit issue

by **Admin** Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 22:03

There may be many topics to post but one I can think of is the limit issue. We have our differences and it's in our interest to not wash our dirty linen in public. Aftab's little outburst against Hafeas comes to mind and although understandable frustration on our part but you can't force someone to talk to you when they clearly are not interested.
Brother Aftab you mentioned in telephone conversation about the councillors voting, would you wish to share with us your info? errrr without mentioning STTA if possible please. Cool

by Aftab Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 22:29

Point taken sir and I thank you for adding this section, and I can see why you were so concilliatory. I have no time for self centred people like that so without further mention I shall explain what you asked ealier. This is an explanation I recieved from a friend in the council:-

The reimposition of limitation has to be approved by full council, and Labour do not have a majority. The Lib-Dems removed limitation when they controlled the council, so we anticipate that they will oppose its reintroduction. Voting so far would be Labour For = 41, Lib-Dem against = 39.

It would need the votes of either the Green Group and/or the Sheffield Group (1 Conservative and 1 Independent) to vote against, and the other group to only abstain for the motion to be LOST. (As you add 2 votes to the Lib-Dems, and we tie on 41-41, and the Lord Mayor then has the casting vote, and he is a Lib-Dem).

So, we need to try and persuade either of the two minor parties to vote with Labour or for all four of them to abstain (giving us a majority of 2 in either scenario).

Our arguments (in the behind-the-scenes discussions with the minor parties) will be based on green issues (e.g., less pollution), and a further survey in due course, etc.

The argument for limitation is by no means won, simply because we don't have a majority in council. But we believe that the case for limitation has been made, and that is our policy objective. The council meeting in January will, yet again, be very interesting!
And further explanation of what happened on Wednesday:
After a 3 and half hour Labour Group meeting I need to be well versed in the arguments!

Bob Kerslake introduced his report to Labour Group, and then took questions - simply loads of them, epecially on the possibility of a legal challenge. We asked questions about the possibility of say Polish tax drivers coming to Sheffield and applying for a license and challenging a limitation policy.

He and other council officers then left the meeting, and a political discusson then took place. This was one of the longest political discussions I can ever recall. We discussed legal challenge, and numerous other aspects of the report, arguing reasons both for and against, before taking a decision - which was substantially in support of the recommendation to seek a limitation (despite officers recommendation to maintain the status quo).

We know that this is probably going to be a contentious matter when we vote in council. It would be difficult for the Lib-Dems to change their minds and vote in favour of limitation, so we expect them to vote against it. But we have listened to the taxi trade, done the necessary survey, and we feel it is time to not only listen but to act. However, we still have to persuade at least two of the four minor party councillors to support us, or for all four of them to abstain.

We'll know for sure how the vote goes in January!

by Aftab Tue 18 Dec 2007 - 17:38

When back in Pakistan my uncle had a friend at School who failed his exams three times in as many years but each time told his simple Mother that he had passed. She celebrated his success by distributing sweets to all the village each time Surprised

. She asked the third time why it was that all his friends are going to other classes and sussed out that he might have failed. That time he got away by explaining that his teacher gave numbers to all the class and when his turn came there were no numbers left for him to pass. His mother told everyone it wasn't his fault but the teacher's for not saving enough numbers for him. Very Happy

Our STTA is a bit like that lad I feel and it seems we are just distributing sweets just like that boy's mother. If the limitation doesn't go on we will get the same excuse of not having any numbers left rather than take responsibility of being inept. Mad

The situation is not yet won and our friends are celebrating success that we yet haven't got, and worst is the fact of telling people we have everything under control, eh? What control? is this a taxi drivers association or the mafia? Who is kidding who here? Shocked

by sheffph Wed 19 Dec 2007 - 3:58

It'll all be over before you know it. I would want things as they are without adjustments from council, and people who buy cabs and then find they got bo work will soon go back to doing other things like PH Wink

by Aftab Thu 20 Dec 2007 - 3:38

Here is another quote from a councillor for people who still have blinkers Cool

There is no 'done deal'. The majority group, of which I am a member, spent nearly 3.5 hours receiving a briefing from officers and then discussing this issue before coming to a view. I assume that the other political groups on council have taken advantage of receiving an officer's briefing - and if so, come to their own view on the survey report and the recommendations of cabinet.

The Licensing Board, of which I am also a member - which considers such matters as fare tariffs (nb. the actual subject of this thread!) - does not have a majority of members from any party (actual composition is: 7 Labour; 7 Lib-Dem; 1 Sheffield Group) and is not subject to party whipping.

The recommendations of Cabinet (regarding limitation) have to come before the full council meeting in January to be ratified, amended or rejected - and no party has a majority on the council.

As usual, in the rarified atmosphere of council meetings these days, councillors will go into the chamber for the debate not having a clue how the vote will go on this (or any other) issue.

by stf Wed 26 Dec 2007 - 17:52

Thanks for that quote, and do we need to start a petition or something? Can anybody from the forum find out the email addresses of councillors that we can contact in areas that we live in to ask them to support our cause, or doesn't it work like that?

by **Admin** Wed 26 Dec 2007 - 19:11

That is a good point and one we have stressed before, and if you click here it will take you to the councillors by wards and their contact details. Wink

You can help by contacting your local councillor and making your views known.

Here is the list of the members of the Licensing Board

Cllr Jenny Armstrong
Cllr David Barker
Cllr Janet Bragg (Chair)
Cllr Alison Brelsford
Cllr Martin Davis
Cllr Denise Fox
Cllr Colin France
Cllr Jonathan Harston
Cllr Diane Leek
Cllr Liz Naylor
Cllr Vickie Priestley
Cllr Denise Reaney
Cllr John Robson
Cllr Clive Skelton
Cllr Sam Wall (Deputy Chair)

by fairway1 Fri 28 Dec 2007 - 17:54

you work for nothing friend, the limit is fixed already, trust me. Dont worry about these things boys now what to do.

by **Admin** Fri 28 Dec 2007 - 18:25

You are entitled to your opinnion of course, but can you provide any evidence of what you base your confidence on xfairawy1?
err........ a request please if you take it on board to change your username please, it's too long to type when replying to you. Don't if you don't want to but............

by Aftab Sat 29 Dec 2007 - 2:56

Head in the sand methinks Smile

by Zee Sat 29 Dec 2007 - 16:42

Just out of curiosity, if there is a limitation, which I doubt ( being pessimistic ) by how much will the plates be worth? and how will price be set ?

by Aftab Sun 30 Dec 2007 - 12:32

If, and at the moment I would say a very big if, then the value will automatically increase by about a couple of grand. The reason is that a bloke with a £500 L reg cab is demanding £2500 for his. I remind you though about the If. Wink

In a free market Zee the price is whatever you can get and that usually depends on the buyers' borrowing power.

I am also curious as to how xfairway1 thinks that the limit is already fixed, any evidence please for support of your outlandish claim?

by fairway1 Sun 30 Dec 2007 - 18:00

peepal who buy new cabs for new plates new what we now that limit is going on and that is why they buy new ten new cabs. do you think they will spend so much mony if they didnt now limit is going on? thos peepal have frends in council and they tell him what is happening.

by ahmed Sun 30 Dec 2007 - 18:42

xfairway1 wrote:peepal who buy new cabs for new plates new what we now that limit is going on and that is why they buy new ten new cabs. do you think they will spend so much mony if they didnt now limit is going on? thos peepal have frends in council and they tell him what is happening.

Wonderful justification. How do you mange to find your way home. The STTA needs people like you, and friends as intellegent as fairway then who needs to worry Laughing

by Zee Wed 2 Jan 2008 - 6:34

Read this on another forum, regarding cabs ranking up on Rudyard Road, Hillsborough. Why on earth do you want to rank on a tight road like that. Then a cab got scraped down the side by a woman motorist, serves him right.

by waheed Wed 2 Jan 2008 - 10:18

Just about that numbers of votes labour has 41 but unfortunatly Ibrar hussain can,t vote(taxi driver) so it will be 40 labour and 39 leb dem. I would say there is no need to be excited to soon because every one should remember that what happened with planning premission application of masjed e umer barnsley road.

by sheffph Wed 2 Jan 2008 - 18:35

Is Ibrar hussain a councillor and a taxi driver? So why can't he vote if he has is councillors hat on? What's there to suggest all taxi drivers want limitation? Many may not want limitation so he should be free to vote one way or other.

by Zee Thu 3 Jan 2008 - 6:43

You better strap yourselves in, because the BIG DAY is approaching !!!!

by TX 1an Thu 3 Jan 2008 - 14:31

Hello Stranger's
Santa's been to my house so I can join in the discussions again!
If the BIG day is next Wed? Why are we not contacting councillers now? and WHY is the STTA not asking all taxi drivers to work all hours Monday and Tuesday, day and night. So the people of Sheffield and the traffic wardens are fed up with so many taxi's snarling up The roads? Surely even the Lib's can see we have too many taxis.
I dont think our goal is money on plates! Just earning a decent living without getting cobwebs on the steering wheel
TTFN

by Zee Thu 3 Jan 2008 - 17:51

Very good idea TX 1an, I for sure will be working those two days, and , I will inform many of my fellow drivers to do the same. Money in plates would be a bonus just like the old days abit of security.

by stf Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 6:56

Money on a plate? What ever happened to work for it? Razz

by **Admin** Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 9:45

TX 1an wrote:Hello Stranger's
Santa's been to my house so I can join in the discussions again!
If the BIG day is next Wed? Why are we not contacting councillers now? and WHY is the STTA not asking all taxi drivers to work all hours Monday and Tuesday, day and night. So the people of Sheffield and the traffic wardens are fed up with so many taxi's snarling up The roads? Surely even the Lib's can see we have too many taxis.
I dont think our goal is money on plates! Just earning a decent living without getting cobwebs on the steering wheel
TTFN

First of all welcome back tx 1an, and secondly thanks for a spot on post. I hope you can wake up your friends out of this sleep walk. The time is fast approaching for the big day as Zee has pointed out, and nobody is showing any comcern for what if the vote goes the other way. Evil or Very Mad

Maybe you lads should shouldn't wait for association to take the lead but get something going yourselves and organise a campaign to get results.

And errr......

stf wrote:Money on a plate? What ever happened to work for it?

Stf is this in any way constructive or helpful?

by Zee Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 10:35

Money on a plate? What ever happened to work for it?

stf do we not work hard enough ?, clearing the city at Zoo Time, we do at least deserve some credit c'mon.

by Aftab Fri 4 Jan 2008 - 10:48

Back on topic lads
here is an email from our friend John Robson and his explanation, and I think you'll agree he has the best interest of our trade at heart.

Thanks Aftab.

I ave now seen you

The limitation is not a done deal by any means, simply because it is full council meeting
that will determine the issue - and as you know it is a hung council. The Lib-Dems have been strangely quiet on this issue (I've not seen any statements from them). My suspicion is that they wll oppose limitation - simply because they lifted it when they were in control of the council in 2000.

To get this through full council meeting next week may rely upon the votes (or abstentions) of the Greens and/or Sheffield Group. I hope to be able to speak in the debate, and intend to concentrate minds on the aspect that the taxi trade is not a free market, but a regulated trade, e.g., fare prices, etc. As such the council should recognise that there are now too many taxis chasing too few fares, contributing to air pollution, etc. Also that there is now uncertainty within the trade that - taking into account the heavy costs associated with investment in a realiabe roadworthy vehicle (which also have to meet stringent standards for conveying disabled passengers), etc. - a viable living can be made.

I just need to catch the eye of the Lord Mayor to ensure that I can speak in the debate though.

Cheers

John

All you need to do now is get the STTA to be as transparent as this forum in working for our trade.

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